Curse

Missing HB · Jul 24, 2011, 02:53 PM // 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by tummlykins

If it was specifically a PvP update why did they nerf a PvE meta skill? This was used on almost every ER E/Mo hero in the game. The E/Mo hero was part of the PvE meta.

I could have understood eventually a complain about discord nerf, but about healing burst on an ele which is a hero... really....
You can take multiple copies of same OP bars today, so i can't understand this QQ'ing.... SoR monk( same one from hero battles), monk bars from tutella or blahks in HA, 3-7 invoke eles with rupt, 3-7 earth eles, etc.... all those bars come from PvP fit really well PvE( but ye, considering those aren't on the wiki, they will hardly be used....)

On topic, i think that it would be better to just have some kind of skills pool every month rather than flux and those skill updates.... it's too much like rotating around the same skills( nerf it , bring it back , nerf it , bring it back in OP mode , etc....) leading to a game with 2 builds only.....

Just to say, axing skill balance which affect whole game simply on who won MAT with which build isn't a good way of dealing with problems

Killed u man · Jul 24, 2011, 03:01 PM // 15:01

Putting more skills into the game degenerates client performance? Or atleast that's what has been told.

Either way, it's pretty obvious to see why they dind't split it:

Either change the description of an existing skill, or make a whole new skill and remove another one. That's a pretty easy choice from Anet's POV.

On top that, ER is still redicilously (Go Lemming!) strong without that skill, I really don't see why people moan. Burning Speed, Spirit Bond, RoF, Reversal of Damage, ...

Skyy High · Jul 24, 2011, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Anyone notice how very similar this skill seems to be to the GW2 Guardian's virtues? Not a coincidence, IMO.

*lemming* · Jul 24, 2011, 08:40 PM // 20:40

you know what else it's similar to

old shield guardian on your whole party

Essence Snow · Jul 24, 2011, 10:13 PM // 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

you know what else it's similar to

old shield guardian on your whole party

Except it only has 1/3 of the duration, heals for only 1/2(x-8), takes 4 times as long to cast, and takes 20 times longer to recharge.

Still Number One · Jul 24, 2011, 10:40 PM // 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

Except it only has 1/3 of the duration, heals for only 1/2(x-8), takes 4 times as long to cast, and takes 20 times longer to recharge.

Good. That means it depends on the user actually using his/her brain in order to get positive outcomes out of it. It means you have to do more than push buttons in a predetermined sequence in order to actually accomplish things. It means you have to actually watch the battlefield and properly time the use of the skill rather than spamming it on your whole party on recharge. It means good players will excel, and bad players will fail. This is what balance is. And we need a helluva lot more of it.

Apok · Jul 25, 2011, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Thing is, monks aren't gonna bring a skill that will only probably work one time in a span of 4-5 seconds every 20 seconds for 10 energy. The skill is still way too risk than reward.

Cuilan · Jul 25, 2011, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Pardon me sir, but it does not take much brain in order to see if foes are attacking a party. There isn't any increased skill difficulty with the new Shield Guardian in PvE. Bad players failed with the old Shield Guardian from not watching spikes to their energy, poor weapon sets, and only enchanting themselves with things. Not saying the old Shield Guardian was a skillful skill, but that argument is nonsense.

Wenspire · Jul 25, 2011, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok

Thing is, monks aren't gonna bring a skill that will only probably work one time in a span of 4-5 seconds every 20 seconds for 10 energy. The skill is still way too risk than reward.

Yup. Recharge is the killer for PvE use. Bring it down to something like 10sec and I might consider using it on my Monk. A 20sec cool-down for a skill that gives protection vs 1 attack in a window of 4sec is terrible; regardless of the AoE heal effect.

Chthon · Jul 25, 2011, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Still Number One

Good. That means it depends on the user actually using his/her brain in order to get positive outcomes out of it. It means you have to do more than push buttons in a predetermined sequence in order to actually accomplish things. It means you have to actually watch the battlefield and properly time the use of the skill rather than spamming it on your whole party on recharge. It means good players will excel, and bad players will fail. This is what balance is. And we need a helluva lot more of it.

It's all well and good to have a skill that performs better with smarter use. The problem here is that the results for dumb use are abysmal and the results for smart use are terrible. For PvE purposes, it's strictly inferior to Aegis, or even stuff like Divine Healing or Breath of the Great Dwarf.

Like I said before, if you want to cheerlead for the new SG, let's see some videos/screenshots of in-game performance that justifies the praise.

Apok · Jul 25, 2011, 01:21 AM // 01:21

The next mAT would be a great place to see if the new SG is viable, but that would require people using it in normal ATs... with actual success.

Chthon · Jul 25, 2011, 01:44 AM // 01:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok

The next mAT would be a great place to see if the new SG is viable, but that would require people using it in normal ATs... with actual success.

I'm looking for general-purpose PvE usefulness. I have no doubt that it's at least marginally useful in the PvP-versus-dervishes context it was obviously intended for.

Xenomortis · Jul 25, 2011, 01:59 AM // 01:59

PvE doesn't need it because PvE already has Aegis. The short duration and long recharge seriously hurt the skill and when there's so many other things going, it's not useful in PvE.

Zodiac Meteor · Jul 25, 2011, 06:22 AM // 06:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Sure, I'm not disagreeing with your assessment of the skill's relative lack of viability as of the moment in GvG, but

um

what

??????????????????????????????????????

My Healing Burst heals all party members at 13 Divine Favor for 40 health, heals an ally 150. Recharges every 4 seconds, costs 5 energy.

Shield Guardian heals all party members at 13 protection prayers for 40 health, blocks 1 freaking attack. Recharges every 25 seconds, costs 10 energy.

By the time this skill recharges, Healing Burst could be cast, say, 5 times, healing everyone the same amount Shield Guardian does on top of Healing Bursts +150 heal.

This is completely useless in PvP. If this was an update meant for PvP, they nerfed a skill no one uses.

Apok · Jul 25, 2011, 06:35 AM // 06:35

^^not to play the Devil's Advocate, but not everyone is calling this skill incredibly useful. More that it is just another option that has a more practical use in PvP than it's previous version did.

About it's usefulness in PvE... yeah, there are many other options for both party healing and spammable blocks that will eventually become more viable than SG was. Stop crying over it. Not because it's pointless, but because, for Christ's sake, it's PVE!

Elnino · Jul 25, 2011, 07:02 AM // 07:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

Shield Guardian heals all party members at 13 protection prayers for 40 health, blocks 1 freaking attack. Recharges every 25 seconds, costs 10 energy.

It blocks one attack on everyone within earshot. If 3 people block an attack, you're looking at 108 health (it heals for 36 at 13 prot) on everyone within earshot.

Bristlebane · Jul 25, 2011, 07:14 AM // 07:14

Besides, comparing an elite with a non-elite, complaining the non-elite do less healing or have a longer recharge?

AndrewSX · Jul 25, 2011, 07:44 AM // 07:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

This is completely useless in PvP. If this was an update meant for PvP, they nerfed a skill no one uses.

Well, that's pretty much the sum.

The fact is that in pve SG had his niche. Small (one single build-ER) but shined in that one. In pvp had nearly no use.

New version seems to be designed to counter dervish trains running arond in every high pvp match. Pity that if that was the aim, this skill really doesn't change anything, due to short duration and blablabla. And in pve is nearly useless now.

So, don't get me wrong, nobody wants to complain (ER still run w/o prob.. & pvp won't feel huge difference), but i just don't see any reason behind changing a pvp useless skill in another useless one while deleting it from pve enviroment.

This is the only thing that bugs me.

[I didn't want to start a pve blancing discussion and get posts deleted, but is just that this change was really unexpected for me...and others seems.]

Xenomortis · Jul 25, 2011, 11:39 AM // 11:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

My Healing Burst heals all party members at 13 Divine Favor for 40 health, heals an ally 150. Recharges every 4 seconds, costs 5 energy.

Shield Guardian heals all party members at 13 protection prayers for 40 health, blocks 1 freaking attack. Recharges every 25 seconds, costs 10 energy.

By the time this skill recharges, Healing Burst could be cast, say, 5 times, healing everyone the same amount Shield Guardian does on top of Healing Bursts +150 heal.

This is completely useless in PvP. If this was an update meant for PvP, they nerfed a skill no one uses.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Healing Burst is not sufficient party healing for either 8v8 format. RA is not the golden standard for PvP.

Skyy High · Jul 25, 2011, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elnino

It blocks one attack on everyone within earshot. If 3 people block an attack, you're looking at 108 health (it heals for 36 at 13 prot) on everyone within earshot.

This, plus the fact that it's non-elite.

If Zodiac wants to say that you can cast Healing Burst 5 times in the time it takes for SG to recharge...well, hey, you just spent 25 energy vs 10, and used your elite 5 times; you damn well better be getting more mileage out of that! It's not like HB is going to manage all your party healing needs on its own.

I take Breath of the Great Dwarf in PvE when I need a quick party heal. This can get a much bigger heal if you use it correctly, and it will heal all allies, which really can't be emphasized enough in PvE. The trade off is the recharge. FFS, it's a party heal in prot! It's not a godlike skill, it's a balanced skill. Are you all so jaded by PvE skills and consumables that you can't recognize that a 20 second recharge on a skill that greatly rewards skillful use it a good thing?